Placr News

August 26, 2010

Responses to Placr’s crowd-serving plan

Filed under: open data — Jonathan Raper @ 10:07 am

There’s been a whole conversation on Twitter about this proposal… here are some of the comments back and forth:

puntofisso Fri 20 Aug: I agree with this article> News on the tube API in @londondatastore and a proposal on ‘crowd-serving’ http://bit.ly/dnsUuF (via @MadProf)

paul_clarke Fri 20 Aug: RT @MadProf: Plan to crowd serve the tube API. Comments please on: http://bit.ly/dnsUuF .. fascinating approach!

londondatastore Mon 23 Aug: @MadProf interesting idea and look forward to response of the SME’s happy to point TfL in your direction if there is a head of steam

rollohome Mon 23 Aug: @MadProf sounds like an interesting approach to OD. I liked the SETI suggestion by 1 commentator: a ‘safe’ data set on which to experiment!

drewsonix Mon 23rd Aug: @MadProf Hi Jonathan – just read your posting re crowd serving. Wasn’t a big part of the problem the sheer size of data for all stations…

drewsonix Mon 23rd Aug: @MadProf ..and simply due to format? Couldn’t it be just “each train & its track locn” which we could crossref against cached tables?

drewsonix Mon 23rd Aug: @MadProf Something like Base64 representation of Set#, track loc, destcode, ismoving(y/n) for each train would mean a tiny fraction of data

MadProf Mon 23rd Aug: @drewsonix Data for all tube stations is not that large, nor too complex. But lots of users & some pulling whole feed at infeasible rate

MadProf Mon 23rd Aug: @drewsonix Challenge for tube API is finding a way to distribute data using open principles- hence crowdserving idea at http://bit.ly/dnsUuF

bensmithuk Mon 23rd Aug: @MadProf It’s an interesting idea, but given the loads it seems a shame TfL can’t just host and serve this properly from a CDN.

MadProf Mon 23rd Aug: @bensmithuk Absolutely agree, but meantime need a digital Dunkirk to rescue the feed! Rare opportunity for SMEs to get users & innovate

bensmithuk Mon 23rd Aug: @MadProf True, but isn’t complexity of proposed approach > than just proxying via Google AppEngine or Amazon?

MadProf Mon 23rd Aug: @bensmithuk Talking public sector procurement in a spending firestorm: not happening. If we take it over, its gets done fast, free & smart

bensmithuk Mon 23rd Aug: @MadProf :-) I didn’t mean them, I meant you / SMEs by collaborating.

MadProf Mon 23rd Aug: @bensmithuk Delighted if people join the party & pay to proxy a few million hits; assumed most would want to offer API calls to generate biz

countculture Mon 23rd Aug: @MadProf Like idea, but wonder if enough SME’s willing to do it; conversely if there were lots, whether it would be economic for each

countculture Mon 23rd Aug: @MadProf …Thus mean that they would drop out, and meaning only small number again…

countculture Mon 23rd Aug: @MadProf However, SME with business idea could always apply to join service, I suppose….

MadProf Mon 23rd Aug: @CountCulture Thanx 4 points on tube API crowdserving plan: idea is that in return for distributor status SME wud hav a chance to advertise

iapainter Mon 23rd Aug: @MadProf Looks great and a great idea. Nothing better than the buzz of a new startup despite its all consuming nature ;) Good luck #placr

daveaddey Mon 23rd Aug: @MadProf Problem is, SMEs (like ourselves) are hosting consumers, not hosting providers. We’re not set up to support high-load feeds.

daveaddey Mon 23rd Aug: @MadProf Also, demand for real-time transport data is inconsistent, eg v high demand during bad weather. Requires scalability we don’t have.

kemp_harper Mon 23rd Aug: Plan to crowd serve the tube API. Comments please on: http://bit.ly/dnsUuF

poggs Mon 23rd Aug: @MadProf Read that. In short, very fluffy and cute, ignores the fact we don’t know detail about what the issue is – bandwidth or API calls

poggs Tue 24th Aug: @MadProf I can’t see the business model in ‘reselling’ TfL’s data. Initial excitement will tail off; there’s only so much analysis we can do

MadProf Tue 24th Aug: @poggs what is biz model for any open data? No ‘white space’ coz no existing need. Need to make a market: transp apps sell by bucketload

poggs Tue 24th Aug: @MadProf I can only see two: a casual/simple “next trains” app on iOS/Android/web and a few people taking lots of data for detailed analysis

MadProf Tue 24th Aug: @poggs What bout live journey planners/ alerts/ oyster station footfall/ incident impact maps/ season ticket rebates/ station accessibility

poggs Tue 24th Aug: @MadProf Interesting uses, but I still can’t see more than a handful of people wanting to use the ‘big feed’ of raw data

MadProf Tue 24th Aug: @poggs Probably only a handful of SME tube API distributors needed. TfL will be able to it serve themselves eventually

The essence of these comments is that we shouldn’t have to do it ourselves but if we do do it then the business model for SMEs has to be clearer. I plan to post further on this… but the SME opportunity is to get users through their distribution of the TfL feed. Getting users is the hardest part of being a digital services SME, so if you get users but can’t monetise them then that is a more general challenge for open data. Persuading TfL to release data in this way… and then creating business for SMEs in London… would be a fantastic achievement for the open data movement.

Time is short… so let me have your offers to serve the tube feed if you can supply some bandwidth to join London’s great crowd-serving initiative!

Jonathan

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